Scaling an Education & Coaching Business

What if narrowing your services to one premium offering–instead of a handful of low-cost products–is the real key to selling more?

‍

In this episode of How to Sell More, Mark Drager gets the full story from Jack, including how this strategy helped him turn his modest $2 million home study course into an eight-figure education and coaching empire.

‍

Jack and his wife Michelle began their real estate investment career in 2003. In that time, they’ve had 4,000 successful real estate transactions.

‍

He coaches others to do the same so they can create sustainable wealth. He’s the author of Forever Cash: How to Break the Earn-Spend Cycle, Take Charge of Your Life, & Build Everlasting Wealth.

‍

“It's not, more is better. Better is better. And you'll be surprised, if you have too many offers, people get confused. They don't even know what offer to take.”- Jack Bosch

‍

Jack’s peers thought he was crazy to abandon the time-tested product ladder approach and focus solely on one product. He admits that in the beginning, even he didn’t know if it would work.

‍

But then it did. His new approach proved to have tons of benefits:

‍

• Better customer experience: Clients paying premium prices engaged more seriously with the material and achieved significantly higher success rates.
• Lower overhead: Instead of managing thousands of low-paying customers, they could focus intensely on hundreds of high-value clients who required proportionally less customer service.
• Higher quality delivery: With improved margins, they could reinvest in the business, adding accountability partners, marketing support for clients, and other enhancements that further improved outcomes.
• Stronger leadership structure: The increased profitability allowed Bosch to build a proper leadership team with VPs of Sales, Marketing, Technology, and other key positions.
• Personal freedom: With proper management in place, Bosch was recently able to take a three-month sabbatical in Europe.

‍

Are you feeling stretched thin by offering too many products that aren’t bringing in the revenue you want? 

‍

This episode offers a compelling case for honing in on one high-ticket offer that you can deliver exceptionally well. 

‍

Connect with Jack Bosch

‍

• Linkedin
• Listen to the Jack Bosch Show
• Learn more about the Land Profit Generator

‍

More About Today's Guest, Jack Bosch

‍

Jack Bosch is one of the foremost land investing experts in America. His journey began in 1997 when he immigrated to the United States from Germany to complete his college degree. Like many, Jack initially followed the traditional path, but quickly realized that conventional employment wasn't aligned with his ambitions and vision for financial freedom.

‍

In 2003, Jack and his wife Michelle embarked on their real estate investing journey, focusing on an often-overlooked niche: vacant land. Their innovative approach has led to more than 4,000 successful real estate transactions, primarily flipping lots and unimproved land.

‍

Jack's investment strategy centers on acquiring land at 10-20% of market value, then either wholesaling properties for immediate profit or creating passive income streams through seller financing.

‍

What began as a land-flipping business has expanded into a diverse portfolio of companies. Jack has built an eight-figure land-flipping enterprise alongside a nine-figure multifamily investment portfolio exceeding 1,000 owned units. He and Michelle also maintain passive investments in an additional 2,000 multifamily units, while operating an eight-figure coaching business to share their expertise with others.

‍

Jack is also the bestselling author of Forever Cash: How to Break the Earn-Spend Cycle, Take Charge of Your Life, & Build Everlasting Wealth, where he outlines his philosophy for building sustainable wealth.

‍

Having built a multi-million dollar empire from humble beginnings, Jack now dedicates himself to teaching others how to achieve financial independence through creative financing and strategic real estate investments. His methods deliberately avoid traditional approaches like 401(k)s or stock market speculation, focusing instead on tangible assets that generate ongoing cash flow.

‍

The Bosches understand what it means to feel "comfortably miserable" in corporate life while yearning for more freedom, time with family, and financial security. Their mission has evolved from building their own wealth to helping others design their ideal lifestyle through real estate investing and creating generational wealth.

A Transcription of The Talk

‍

Mark Drager: Jack, I heard you speak at a private business owners' group about your journey of simplifying your business model. Rather than offering multiple products each generating a few million in revenue, you decided to cut back and focus entirely on one high-value offer. This strategic shift not only streamlined your operations but dramatically increased your profitability. Could you share what led to this decision and how did this transformation unfold?

‍

‍Jack Bosch: Yeah, so obviously, we're running a real estate business, so we buy and sell land. So we basically figured out a method to find people who don't want their piece of land anymore. We get them for usually really steep discounts, 10 to, like, 50 cents on $1 is what we pay for this piece of land, and then we turn around and we sell them and make a nice profit on it. Great. 2009 we've been - my wife and I have been doing this since 2002. 2009 comes around. We wanted to start teaching this. So we come up, we set up a separate company. We set up a home study course. We launched a home study course. Great. Bring that in a short period of time bring that business up to about $2 million and but it was a business that relied on the home study course, and very quickly there, I realized that it's really hard. Now we made that the profit purpose of this business is a little bit secondary. It's really our passion project, in a way that we want to help change people's lives, and we want to create millionaires. And the strategy now has created over 1000 millionaires already, but at the end of the day, we ideally want to make a little money on this business too, right? So it's not just a charity of a project, but it's a make the world better project, but in the same time, we should make a little profit too.

‍

So the point is, though, we realized very soon that making profit with that model. In the educational industry, there's this bottle that's called the ascension model, basically where you sell something for $97, or sometimes they call it the lead magnet for $7 or trip wire. There's all this terminology around it that you have, like you got something for free, then you pay for something for $7, then for $97, and for $497, then for $997, and for $5,000 dollars, and then for 25, or $50,000.

‍

‍Mark Drager: Let me just quickly interrupt. For listeners unfamiliar with the ascension model, it works like this: You do paid advertising to build awareness, initially at a loss. You offer something inexpensive—$7 or $97—to identify who's willing to spend money with you. This helps offset some advertising costs and signals potential customers. From there, you bring them closer and upsell to a $499 product where you start making profit. As you move people up this ladder to more expensive offerings, the groups get smaller, but eventually, you might have 10-15 people from your original 10,000 willing to spend $50,000 with you. That's the concept—advertise broadly, then move people up a value ladder with increasingly premium offerings.

‍

Jack Bosch: Yes, exactly. And that's a proven model, and it works, and many people have made it work, but I think it's the wrong model to implement if you want to go for fast growth, because here's the thing, like it's ideally you want to provide. It's very hard to provide a lot of personal services for $7 or $97 or even $497 because advertising is so expensive and it eats up all your profits. So I know very, very few people that actually make money with a purely home study course-based business like. Got you, usually even at a $1,500 pay a product price. It's usually a break even, or close to a break even. You make a little money, but then you need support. That's the other thing, that when you think, when you bring in a whole bunch of customers at $7, $49, $97, $400, those customers are usually the most needy customers. And I don't mean that in a negative way. If somebody my customers, listen that we love you, but there's other customers. That think that for $97 they should own you, and that's just not right. And so that's not correct. Okay, requires a lot of customer service. So now you have to start building a team. You have to bring customer service people in. You have to do this. And very quickly, any margin you have, it gets eroded in that model.

‍

So that's the world we were in. We were doing a couple of million dollars in business. Profitability wasn't high because, again, we treated a little bit more as a hobby, but at the same time, it was good, feel-good, project. And at some point of time, we said, like, you know, what? If we really want to do right by this market, if we really want to help people become millionaires, we need to do actually offer hands-on coaching. But going to the ascension model, it's so much brain damage, it's so hard to do this, that we came up with the idea. And actually we didn't invent that. We learned it from somebody else, but we turned that idea of turning that entire thing around. So basically what we said, Forget about the $7 program. Forget about the 49, the 97 to 497. The thought we kept our $1,500 program, because if somebody wanted it, they could have it, but we barely advertised it, and then we went straight up to a 30-40, and $50,000 coaching program.

‍

‍Mark Drager: But if you're listening to this and you are in B to B, or you're in a lower volume, higher margin business. I mean, let's play this forward. This is if you had maybe a $50,000 a month retainer model, a $250,000 project level, a million dollar project level, and saying, we're not going to do anything, but just take the best of the best, focus all of our time and effort on something that is going to be lower volume, but higher revenue, ideally higher margin, which should allow us to open up more gross profits so that way we can reinvest it to make something even better.

‍

‍Jack Bosch: That's exactly the key. So what we very quickly realized is by doing that, instead of having 1000 customers that pay us $17 or $49 we had 100 customers that pay us $50,000 or 200 customers that pay us $50,000 so we actually grew from, very quickly, from a $2 million company to a five, to a ten million and beyond, company. But just focusing on that kind of a customer. But here's the thing, how many people do you actually need to deliver that service at a $50,000 level? Well, in our side, we're coaching, so we need a coach. So we build up a team of coaches. We now have 14 coaches. Those coaches get paid by the call that they do. They get paid very well, but they get paid by the call they do. So it's a variable cost, so that, basically, if I don't sell a coaching, I have no coaching expenses, because I don't have a coach needing to coach that.

‍

We needed to build a small team of coaching management. But that team is not bigger than the customer service team we had to create before for the $17 or for the seven or $97 people that required way more customer service as interestingly, the people at $50,000 they have way more respect for you, way more respectful of your time and and so on. And they actually don't think they own you. They're excited to work with somebody of our caliber, and they're respectful of it to schedule the things. They're much more successful. And our success rate was much higher. Because if you sell a course for 999 per 1000 or $1,500, most people don't even open that course. But if somebody pays $50,000, they're going to better sure that they get their money's worth. So they consume it. They work with us. They work closely with us, and so on.

‍

So we created a really, really intensive coaching program that includes a whole bunch of one-on-one sessions with their 101 coach, which is a full-blown which is usually our people that went through our coaching program. They're full-time land flippers now, and they are excited to contribute a portion of their time back to help the next generation up to millionaire status. Then we added daily group coaching calls. Like this is a scalable business, because it doesn't matter if one person attends or 500 it's the same one person teaching it for an hour and a half. So five days a week, there's group coaching. We added the hotline that people can call in, but the same coaching management team can call the hotline, because even though we might have 200 coaching students, we only get three phone calls a day. So it's not something that you have to don't need a huge team for that. So we were able to but what it allowed us to do is actually add staff like, for example, accountability partners, people whose sole job is to make sure people don't follow the bandwagon, people whose whole call is to call people's like, what are you struggling with? I see you haven't attended one of the group coaching sessions for three weeks. What's going on in your life? How can I help you? Get you back excited, get you back on the train for $97 you don't have money for that 4000 Dollars. You don't have money for anything that.

‍

So it allowed us to basically pour resources into customer care, customer success, into additional kind of things. Now we even do marketing for our people. We take a portion of what they pay us, and we start lead generating for them so that they we hand them leads on a silver platter. All they need to do is make offers and then and follow up a little bit and get deals on the contract to get them started. We can do that because at $50,000 we can take a few 1000 or $5,000 and start marketing for that. At $1,000 it's a home study course. You go figure out, though you do it yourself, even though the home study course is world-class, you still there's no money left on our end to actually provide really hands-on support. It just is not, because once you add a bunch of a few people in there, overhead is really high, plus advertising eats up 90% of that already anyway.

‍

So what we did is that the way we implemented that was through so through launches and to, like we did, five-day challenges, where were five days, we explained people how this works. They have lots of chance of answering questions. Really. Get to know us, get to feel us, get to see that we're sincere about this. And then, just then, the sales, the program that we present is $50,000 and then people, I was shocked. I didn't think it actually would work. My wife brought this in, and she's like, we need to try it. There's no way somebody's going to go from zero to $50,000 in a matter of nine days. This is like, let's try it. And of course, wife is always right. She was right and she's the co-founder of our business, and she is smarter than I am, obviously. So we implemented it, and it succeeded, and it succeeds to this day.

‍

And so what that was step number one, because after being able to do that, we were able to grow this to that level. The second step, though, is that there's actually nothing wrong with the ascension model, but the ascension model works best if you have something big already that produces so much revenue that now you can use a little bit of that revenue to develop different kind of programs that are also really great, that plug into the same infrastructure. And now we actually are doing the ascension model. We are spending advertising, and we have programs that start at still have nothing starts under $1,000 but we have $1,000, we have a $5,000 program. We have it that $25,000 program. We have programs that are that we have back filled because, as we were doing this, we realized that people do want smaller programs.

‍

But the point is now, because we focused on that main program, we now have all we have enough money in the system that we can actually create the other programs, and we have the team in the system that we can fulfill these other programs without adding additional cost. And that's the problem, the problem. And when you try to do it the way I set up for upfront that you try first grading the $7 then the 49 then the 500 then the $1,000 program, you'd never have enough money to create something amazing up on top, because you're constantly running out of money, because all the money goes for advertising and just general overhead by turning this around and grading something big first, you know, and that is so attractive that actually people will sign up for it. Then we did it. Now you have the money to actually also provide something for everyone else. And that's actually the much better solution, in my opinion.

‍

‍Mark Drager: I love this approach! It reminds me of Gordon Ramsay's playbook in the original British Kitchen Nightmares series. He would assess a restaurant's situation, pare back their menu to just a few excellent items they could consistently deliver with their existing team, and then build from that foundation.

‍

What you've described follows a similar philosophy - create a focused product with better margins, reinvest those profits to improve delivery and hire the right team. But from your original presentation, I recall this wasn't just about product development. The next critical step was building a proper leadership team, right? You worked to develop different management levels and surround yourself with higher-caliber talent so you could operate as an eight-figure company rather than staying stuck in a $2 million mindset. Was that your next major evolution?

‍

‍Jack Bosch: Yes, that is right. And thank you for reminding me. Well, it's been a year and a half since I did the presentation, so I kind of sometimes take things for granted at that point, that we were just living in this world. But yes, that's the other that's the other benefit. Not only do you have the money to then build additional programs and really build the best program in the world out there, that our success rates are like, four times the average, the industry average. And basically, there's always a certain percentage of people who will not do anything you ask them to do. But if I take those out, we're pretty much getting 90 plus percent of the people that want to have success to success, and that means basically that the few percent that don't have success is because they just don't do anything. But so that speaks for itself, that it works, but yes, the other part of it is then in order to once by doing that, by offering this higher end program, you have the profitability to actually go from the and especially in the coaching business there most coaching businesses are actually not businesses. Most coaching businesses somebody who coaches and has a few people that help them, right? And they call it a business, and that was my business, too at the beginning. I mean, I'm not not accepting myself, but it allowed us to actually create a real business.

‍

So now we have a real leadership team. We have a VP of sales and a sales team of five people. We have a VP of Marketing and a marketing of four or five people. Actually, if you add a few extra people to it, six, seven people. We have a head of technology, because we have a CRM software that developed from scratch. That CRM team has a team of seven people, and currently, an extra five, because we're redeveloping it completely, right or like redeveloping, making it much more user-friendly and bringing it back to the 21st century. Look little goofy before we're rolling this out in the next couple of weeks, but all these things, we now have money for it, and we have a director of technology that's in charge of all of that, right? We have a co-head of coaching that with with a coaching management team.

‍

And as a result, I was able to this year, earlier this year, I was able to take three months and take a sabbatical and go to Europe. Now these three months, I was spending 35 days on something called the Camino Santiago, which is basically a pilgrimage to Spain. And I basically walked eight 500 miles in the course of 35 days. In those 35 days, I attended one team meeting. That's it, only one team meeting. And during that time, we did promotions, we did webinars, we did live, live things, and the team ran everything. I didn't have to be involved anymore, and that's really the definition of a business. And then afterwards, my friend, my family, joined me, and we spent two more months traveling to Europe. And during that time, we worked some. We rented a place in Milan, Italy, and for a week and Airbnb, and we did, we ran a promotion from there, because the business needed me every once in a while, still to come in. But other than that, we were basically in those three months. I probably worked three weeks. That's about it. The rest of the time, we truly took off.

‍

And that is because, again, the same exact model that allowed us to grow quickly and grab the profitability also then allowed us to actually put leadership piece, leadership team members in place that run everything, that have great visions, that have a great executions. And now I just show up to these promotions. And more or less just show up for these promotions, or create an occasional advertising video and things like that, and I have much more time to focus on other things in life.

‍

‍Mark Drager: And so looking back on this, I think that price sensitivity, the amount of profits a business might make, pricing just from a psychological point of view, being competitive. I think business owners struggle with this often, because we can do benchmarks relative to our competition. We understand what our margins are. We understand what our expenses are. Many times, there might be things, you know, I'm thinking, if you're in, if you're in any kind of commodity-based business, where you're at the whim of what's happening with foreign exchange, what's happening with commodities, what's happening with raw materials or raw goods, what's happening with inflation and the need to be able to pay staff more often, small and medium-sized businesses, especially don't have enough profits to be able to grow the way that you have. So I'm curious, now that you're looking back on this, how do you feel about what profits actually means to a business?

‍

‍Jack Bosch: I mean, it's the lifeblood of business, it's not even sales, it's profits, because there's a lot of businesses that do have a lot of sales, but then have no profitability whatsoever. So the economy did recede for us, like when interest rate raised, when interest rate shot up, naturally speaking, we'd be in the B to C market. Our customers are a successful entrepreneur who is sick and tired of what he's doing, and wants to get some good out somewhere else. So our man. Manager, an attorney, a stay-at-home mom that homeschooled their kids, but now wants to get back into into business. And it's different kind of people like usually are the most successful people for us are people that that have already been successful in something in life, but when the interest rates went up, a lot of people shot back because real estate wasn't the cool thing, cool kit on the block anymore.

‍

So our business has receded a little bit. So we've actually shrunk. And in the live farm revenue, we have gone down for the last couple of years. But the good news is, we did have those larger profits, so we could use some of that to come up with new replacement product. And our products have shifted now. We do. We actually do have a full pallet of products right now, as I mentioned, and now the market has the market today demands a little bit more of the extension model, so we do much more people. There's much less people today that are willing to just pay the 50k they instead, they want to start with 5k so we needed to react to the market too. So we're not immune to market condition. It sounds beautiful, but in the market, but in the market condition, we're aware back then that worked really well in the market conditions today, I still think it works to start with something that is above $79 or $97 it starts with something at 5000 or 10,000 because we're doing really well selling a $5,000 product, and then 20% of those people upsell to the 25 to $50,000 program and realize because what they're doing in this market is they're they're checking out. Well, let me see if you guys are really real. Let me dip my toe in, right there. People are more careful with their money, which I don't blame them for.

‍

So they're dipping their toe in, they're seeing that they're being overwhelmed with value, and they're like, whoa. This is real. And then they have no problem spending the money. So the market has changed a little bit, but from a point of profitability, is key. So as we did this, we also realized that we had over-hired. We had over-hired significantly, because we're on a trajectory to even higher growth. But then the market shifted on us, and we actually shrank by like 20% over the last two years, which is not bad considering what the industry's done. There's like half of the education, the coaching people industry went out of business in the last couple of years, but we're still profitable here and doing really well. And I think we're at the bottom right now, and it's only going to go up.

‍

So we had to restructure our team a lot too. But the nice part is, with a management team, you actually can do that. So my, my very my view on without losing, actually, the quality of the coaching we just had over-hired on certain positions. So we, we got rid of a lot of fat that we have built up, which is, I mean, everyone knows that once you're in the good times, you build up some fat and lesson learned, right, and but profits, I mean, are key. You cannot keep an eye off profits. You got to do this profitably, unless you have some really long-term view that you're like you look at Amazon. Amazon wasn't profitable for the first 10 years, and now it's obviously.

‍

‍Mark Drager: Well, I mean, if you're VC backed or PE backed, or you're…

‍

‍Jack Bosch: That is a different story. If you're backed by your own money, you got to keep an eagle’s eye on your profitability every single month. But again, when we change the model, the first thing we added was a $25,000 program that cost us, well, the fulfillment cost is very low and but the program is amazing, because what we're doing is we're plugging the $25,000 people into 80% of what the $50,000 people get, with the exception of the 101, coaching, which, of course, is tremendous value, right? But everything else they get at half the price, right? So they're hugely successful in the program.

‍

And the $5,000 program is still hands-on, and it's still including us. Once a week, they get us, and they get questions answered, and they get trained and they get coached, and so on. So we have a lot of people in the $5,000 program that are successful, but the point is, the fulfillment cost, again, is minimal. The extra fulfillment cost is zero for the company, because the people that fulfill the $5,000 program are already in the team, and they're already paid for by the overall kind of program. So adding that program in requires no extra cost to us. So we were able to, even while revenues were shrinking, by offering different kinds of programs, we were able to keep the profitability pretty high. And yeah, profitability is key. You got to keep an eye on that. Otherwise. I mean, you're bleeding to death, and that's nobody can survive that. So it's a key item. But again, even there, the structure that we built helped keep us tremendously profitable.

‍

‍Mark Drager: And so if you had to do this again, I'm curious what you would move a lot quicker at because maybe you realize you've built up some confidence, maybe some of the things that you were afraid of happening didn't happen, didn't come to pass. But if you had to do this again. What would be some things that you might rush into a little quicker, and what would be some the hard lessons that you would avoid.?

‍

‍Jack Bosch: So hindsight is always 20-20 I think what I would be the market conditions were really amazing for us in particularly 1819, and then particularly 2021, when the market when COVID had, COVID was like a disaster, obviously, for health and everything, but it was, it was a blessing for our business, because people sat at home and they're like, Oh my God, what do I do? I'm about to get laid off again. Let me go do something else, or just simply being at home, give him extra time, and not going anywhere, not being able to go anywhere. So they were captive, and they were there. And I wish we would have gone three times bigger in with marketing and advertising and everything during that time than we did. We could have probably spent five times as much in advertising and had five times as much sales and grown even even bigger and faster.

‍

On the other hand, I had never built a company like that, so I didn't know we were. We were trying and trial and error in the background to make sure that we provide the best coaching program in the world. So we overhired a whole bunch of positions that we could have got gotten away. We hired 15 accountability partners that we could have done with, two or three, right? We were preparing for even faster growth. And some of them, because we're virtual, didn't really do what we asked him to do. And kind of like, did the minimum. And by the time we figured out we let 12 go, or the length, I mean, we overhired. So I would be careful. I would hire a little slower, and I would really focus on more, on the on the efficiencies of the program with each other and so on, because we probably wasted a couple million dollars just in payroll.

‍

‍Mark Drager: Of course, when you're in a bubble or in a bull run, it's kind of hard to tell, yeah, how long it'll last. I know for myself, I'm fairly conservative financially in terms of investments. I like to keep a lot of cash on hand. I like to focus on profitability, and I can tell you, like ‘14 through ‘18. I felt like I was not leveraging leverage enough. I felt like I was waiting. You know, we know that recessions hit on a seven-year cycle, give or take, and I was waiting and waiting and waiting. And I survived 2008, 2009 barely, barely survived. And so I almost had PTSD about massive recessions. And so as we went through ‘16, as we went through ‘17, as we went through ‘18, I just I was pulling back because I was waiting for the shoe to drop. I was preparing for this big thing that would happen, and it never happened. And then 2020 happened, and ‘21 and ‘22 and I'm glad that I was as conservative as I was, so when you're in a bubble and when you're in one of these runs, one you don't know how long it'll last, and you just don't, I mean, I think it would be very ballsy to five times your marketing spend in sales, mid-run. You could grow yourself out of business essentially, right?

‍

‍Jack Bosch: Yeah, hindsight is 20-20, we're like, Oh my God. And at that point we obviously were profitable, and we enjoyed that part of it too. We were changing lives. And at this point we're like, profit is like, do we just pour it all back in, or do we actually enjoy some of the profitability? Because there were years before when, particularly when we're doing the old ascension model, where we're just losing money, not profitable, because it's, again, it's hard to make money if you're just telling people, if you're just offering, like, $97 programs and going up from there.

‍

So we're like, Hey, this is really great. So we chose to invest more in even more customer support. But then we realized that the customers actually didn't need that kind of support, they need a different kind of support. And that's when we then changed into less overhead and so on and so forth, so on the saving side. But yeah, I mean, hindsight is 2020 but exactly right. We're like, Okay, this is how long is this going to go? How long is this going to go on? We need to keep some powder in the safe, because if things come back down again, then, well, we want to have some reserves and so on. And so I'm not, and after my time, if I would have been in the same situation today, again, it's hard, it's hard to go full in.

‍

And when you're doing well and things are growing, and things are growing so fast that you actually have a hard time catching up, organization-wise, that's the other things. Like, I don't even know if we could have handled that five times extra or three extra growth, three like, we would have perhaps fallen apart and the seams, and we would have gotten bad reviews, and we've gotten unhappy customers. And so could we have, should we have, perhaps a little more? But there's also other factors like that that play a role that made us not grow faster, but I'm happy with what we did.

‍

‍Mark Drager: "I'm thinking about business owners who might be listening to this and thinking, 'This all sounds great, but I just don't have the margins to work with.' You know, when markets changed for you, you had to adapt too. So for those business owners who feel trapped with tight margins, who think they can't simplify their offerings - what did you learn? How can they improve what they're offering without breaking the bank?"

‍

‍Jack Bosch: So my advice would be to really look at how you can offer additional programs or other things without them costing you extreme amounts in fulfillment, like the efficiency, What? What? Again, as market, as like 2021 ‘22 or the market? Well, everything was beautiful, like wonderful. Everything was growing like crazy. In ‘23 and ‘24, the market started contracting again for us. So as I said, the what we have done is there, we looked at ways that we can offer now in between programs that without adding a whole bunch of overheads to it, ideally with adding no overhead to it.

‍

So, the group coaching that we offer at the five daily group five group coaching calls a week that we offer. They're already happening. They're already happening for our VIP coaching students that do the one one-on-one. They're already getting those five days a week group coaching. So now the group coaching people, we plug them into those same sessions, so the extra cost is zero, our team and the management team, since we have less customers, the management team of the coaching has less to do, so let's add to them the ability to take phone calls on the hotline because they know what we're doing. They know exactly how it works. They're experts, so now they have bandwidth to be hotline. So now we added an extra value that people can actually call us in between the one one-on-ones in it, in the group coaching calls, they can simply call in and say, I'm struggling with this.

‍

And then we build a triage system where they basically they say, Okay, if you need this, I need you to use this document and it's solve it, or I need you to watch this video, or let's get let me schedule a quick phone call with this person who is an expert on it, and you do a quick 15-minute phone call, none of that costs extra money. So the point is, instead of doing more and coming up with more programs, perhaps eliminate those that perhaps cost more effort than they are worth, and just instead, it's not, more is better. Better is better. So that might be the answer here. But, but the other thing is, you'll be surprised if you have a whole lot of things to offer. People are confused. If you have too many offers, they don't even know what they should take. You need to tell them. I'm telling people, you need to be in our VIP program, because that's the program that will propel you to success. Only if you cannot afford the VIP program, should you consider one of the other programs? They're also fantastic, but the VIP program is the best.

‍

So we are positioning our entire company for the VIP program. And I think that's just the positioning. That doesn't mean the other programs went away. You want to buy our $1,000 home study course? You can we actually, when we did the essential model, we had a $97 mini home study course. We still have it. If somebody says, All I have is 100 bucks, well, go get this. It's just no longer advertised. It's no longer understood. So focus your offerings. Like Dave Ramsey said, like you can't afford to offer everything and so on. I understand, but then try to find ways to deliver them in ways that costs you less, but don't cut down on the on the service experience, or consolidate them, bring them together great, bigger bonus package that you can charge your premium for, and which really consists of what you're already doing. So you're not reinventing. Renting over the world. You're taking this plus test this right now, then. This is the 1000. This is 1000 This is 1000 you add those three together and add some extra. Thing is now it's a $6,000 program.

‍

‍Mark Drager: I love it. We've seen this in telecom, right? You know, phone plus internet plus cable TV. You move, you take three different product lines, you move them together. You have some kind of bonus or discount for volume. This has been great. I really do appreciate you coming in and being willing to open up about something that most business owners wouldn't want to speak about publicly. So Jack. I really want to thank you for that. Now, I do have one final question for you. It's what I like to end every podcast episode with. So if you're ready for it, if you can give us just one tip or strategy to help us sell more. What would that be?

‍

‍Jack Bosch: One tip or strategy to help you sell more? What has worked really well for us early on and continues to work well is the concept of community. So what I mean by that is nobody trusts anyone out there anymore. There's so much noise, there's so much garbage, there's so much Look at this. Errors are cool, things like that. What people trust is in word of mouth and in other people's experiences. So, one of the reasons we were able to grow the first few years, we grow after like we were a $2 million company forever, and then we started 2016, we started focusing on one thing first, and that one thing was community.

‍

So we created a Facebook group. And during that time, nobody in the educational space, particularly the real estate in educational space, where a lot of coaches out there have a 10% success rate, right? And because their business model is designed, like we said, they don't have money to provide really good service. So as a result, it's crappy services, crappy programs, and people are not succeeding with it. They were afraid of their own customers, so the last thing they wanted was their customers to be all grouping together in a Facebook group and commiserating about the lack of support and the lack of success they had. Well, we did the exact opposite. We created a land, we created a Facebook group, which you're just about to rename into land profits nation right now. It's called land profit generator, real estate investing group, but it's going to be the land profits nation. And in that group, we brought all our prospects and customers in, and we went live three times a week.

‍

And we're still I went away from it for a while, but now, as of next week, I'm going live again every week, at least once, and then a couple of our team members going once a week live. So we begin going three times a week live in the group, with tips, with strategies, with Q and A's, with celebrations, with things like that, and in order to show the audience that we real and that we care because we do. We're real and we care, right? Actually, it's one of our mottos. We care more as a result. So my tip would be, is really foundational. It's really some simple it's not a hack, it's not a gimmick, it's not a thing. It's just simply connect in this world of AI, in this world of robofa calls, in this world of fake pictures and all this kind of stuff. What people are craving is real human connection, no matter what your business are, people at the end of the day, buy from other people.

‍

You get a government contract because you become friends with a government person, or they you meet them in person. It's not just because the best problem is because they trust that you're the best person to actually implement it. They trust that you're the best agency to make this happen. And if they're not experts in what you are, what you're selling, if they would be expert, they wouldn't need you. So because they're not experts, and they don't know how to really judge an expert, that's they don't know how. I don't know if one agency is better than another. But what I can go by is if one agency or one service provider or one producer tells me, on an ongoing basis, come in so tells me the benefits of, here's how you do that, and here's what you want to be careful with here, and here's how you do this, and gives me all this knowledge and tips for free, I'm going to be like, I can trust that person, let me hire them over the others. It's a longer approach and requires consistency, but that alone in the first three years that we applied, it grew our business from two to three to four and a half to $6 million without spending $1 in advertising.