The Introverts Guide to Networking

In this episode of "How To Sell More," host Mark Drager chats with Matthew Pollard, known as the "Rapid Growth Guy." Matthew busts myths about introverts in business and shares some game-changing tips for networking. Whether you're the type who dreads small talk or you're just looking to up your networking game, Matthew's got something for you. He breaks down how introverts can turn their supposed weaknesses into strengths, and why being the loudest in the room isn't always the best strategy.

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I'm on a mission to help people like yourself realize you're not a second-class citizen. Your path to success is just different. -- Matthew Pollard

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Listen to The Episode!

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Top 3 Reasons to Listen

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Learn practical networking strategies: Matthew shares his method for pre-planning conference attendance, including connecting with attendees beforehand and scheduling strategic meetings. This approach offers introverts a concrete way to make networking more comfortable and effective.

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Understand the power of differentiation: The episode illustrates this concept with the story of Wendy, a language tutor who transformed her business by rebranding as the "China Success Coach." This example vividly demonstrates how reframing your business identity can lead to significant growth and higher-value opportunities.

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Discover the importance of niche marketing: Matthew explains why focusing on a specific niche can lead to more effective marketing and higher-value clients. This insight challenges the common misconception that broad appeal is always better for business growth.

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Follow Matthew Pollard on Social

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Website: https://matthewpollard.com/about-matthew-pollard

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewpollard

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More About Today's Guest, Matthew Pollard

2023 Sales Kick-off Speaker of the Year - Selling Power | “The Real Deal" - Forbes | Author of The Introvert's Edge Book Series

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Matthew Pollard, known as the Rapid Growth Guy, is an internationally recognized entrepreneur, author, speaker, and coach specializing in market differentiation, niche marketing, and sales systemization. Overcoming significant personal challenges, including a learning disability and introversion, Matthew transformed his life from a struggling door-to-door salesman to a powerhouse in business growth. Before the age of 30, he successfully launched five multimillion-dollar businesses and has since helped over 3,500 companies worldwide achieve rapid growth. As the founder and CEO of Rapid Growth, LLC, he focuses on maximizing ROI for businesses of all sizes, with a particular passion for empowering small business owners to navigate the complexities of growth. Matthew is also the founder of the Small Business Festival, recognized by INC. as one of the top business conferences in the nation. He is the author of the bestselling book The Introvert’s Edge, which has been lauded as a game changer for introverts in business. His insights have been featured in major publications such as Forbes, Fortune, and Entrepreneur, and he hosts two top-ranked podcasts that delve into strategies for business success. Through his dynamic speaking engagements and coaching programs, Matthew Pollard continues to inspire entrepreneurs to embrace their unique strengths and achieve extraordinary results.

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Key Takeaways

• Understanding introversion and extroversion - Introversion and extroversion are primarily about where individuals draw their energy from, not their ability to network or sell. Many successful professionals, including well-known figures, are introverts who have learned to excel in networking and sales through preparation and strategy.

• Effective networking strategies for introverts - Successful networking for introverts involves thorough preparation, including researching attendees, pre-planning meetings, and developing a clear, unique message that differentiates them from others. This approach allows introverts to network more efficiently and comfortably.

• The importance of differentiation and niche focus - Creating a unique, differentiated message and focusing on a specific niche are crucial for business growth. This approach simplifies marketing efforts, makes sales processes more effective, and can lead to higher-value opportunities.

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A Transcription of The Talk

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Mark Drager: I find that there's a really big focus amongst entrepreneurs, especially among speakers, coaches, and consultants. You go to conferences and they talk about introverts, they talk about extroverts. And it drives me a little bit crazy because, Matthew, I am a hardcore introvert. My wife is an introvert. I'm an introvert. I am perfectly happy being an introvert. But when I say that to people, they go, "No, you're not." And I go, "Excuse me, you're going to tell me that I'm not an introvert?" They're like, "You're on the podcast, you speak from stages, you go to meetings, and you call people." I'm like, "Well, I'm outgoing, and I can turn it on, and I can do what we're doing now. But trust me when I say I'm an introvert." So I'd love to start the conversation because I feel like there's a lot of confusion. How do you define an introvert? Is being an extrovert in business and sales the same as being outgoing? I mean, how do we clear this all up?

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Matthew Pollard: I think it's become overcomplicated, maybe because there are too many grant dollars, which makes it more complicated. But the truth is, it's just where you draw your energy. It doesn’t really matter whether you enjoy networking or sales; that has no real connection. Now, sure, don’t get me wrong, extroverts are far more likely to enjoy networking, but I love networking now. I didn’t like it when I started. I love selling now, but when I got confronted with 1,000 doors and was told to go cold call the first time, that was terrifying to me, and I wouldn’t have done that unless I fell into sales. But the truth is that the definition of introversion is just where you draw your energy.

It really frustrates me as well because I feel that there are a lot of introverts—and Mark, I was so ecstatic that you outed yourself straight away as an introvert—because there are people... It's funny, I’m lucky enough that I get to speak at a lot of really great events, and while speaking for groups like EO, which are your multi-million-dollar businesses, my favorite thing to do, I also speak at a lot of big corporate tech events with people in finance, technology, and wealth management. It’s funny, when I go and speak at these events—actually, the best example is when I spoke at the AAISP Leadership Summit, which is the most ridiculous name in the world, American Association of Inside Sales Professionals—and I spoke on their main stage, and then they asked me to speak at this leadership retreat. The best in the business all came, right? All the highest-level people from the biggest wealth management firms, airline companies, tech... And I just thought it’d be fun to ask them if they were introverted or extroverted, expecting that they would just give me a straight answer.

No, yeah, sure. I got some, “Yes, I’m an introvert,” and some, “No, I’m not.” But then I would get these, “Oh, I was an introvert, but don’t worry, I’m not anymore,” like it was a disease that they’d recovered from, or “I was an extrovert, but since COVID, I’ve found myself being more of an introvert.”

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Mark Drager: Don’t even get me started on the ambivert thing. Oh, my goodness.

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Matthew Pollard: Well, it’s a pet peeve that I have. And don’t get me wrong, there are occasionally some people that... I mean, look, every now and then you get somebody that doesn’t study and they get a perfect score in high school to get to university. Fine, I get that. But a lot of people will say they were an introvert who learned how to sell and network and now say, “I’m now an ambivert,” and that frustrates me because what it means for the rest of the introverts is that they’re not hearing from anybody who was an introvert and became successful. I’ve got a podcast called “The Introverts Edge,” which is literally interviewing people that you wouldn’t imagine are introverted and getting them to talk because everyone thinks introverts are the people hiding under a bridge, not willing to talk to anyone, right? It’s not the case. You see introverts everywhere. Like you say, “Oh, Mark, clearly you can’t do this because you’re an introvert. I mean, you can’t speak from the stage. You’re talking about sales, and you speak from the stage.” Well, okay, you could do it, I can do it. Gosh, Zig Ziglar was an introvert. How is this an okay thing to think? And, “Oh yeah, but the reason we can’t sell is that we’re terrible at small talk.” Oprah Winfrey and David Letterman are introverts. “Oh, but we can definitely not network, because that’s much, much harder.” Well, Ivan Meisner, the founder of BNI, the world’s largest networking group, is an introvert.

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What’s the definition? It’s that we’re tired afterward, right? I just went on a speaking tour, and every time I’m on stage, I’ve got so much energy. I love being up there, just like I love skydiving. But after that, I’m not tired right away, right? I’m exhausted afterward, and so when I sit down afterward, I’m not the guy like the extrovert who finishes speaking and says, “Hey Mark, let’s go to the pub! Let’s keep this party going.” I know there’s a time when I need to go and switch off, and if I don’t, I’m going to act like a five-year-old kid who’s been kept up past nine o’clock at night. I’m upset, I don’t know why, and I can’t control it.

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Mark Drager: I was telling you, we were talking a little off-camera about jet lag because you're saying you're traveling so much for work. And I was saying that I’m part of a business owners group out of Phoenix, and I joined in December, went down for a three-day event. I joined, so I went back down in January. And it's two days, and it’s a few hours off of the Eastern time zone that I’m used to. And so by the time we wrap in the afternoon at like, four or 5 pm, whatever Arizona time is, it’s late for me—quote-unquote "late." I’m an old man. They’re all getting ready, saying, “Oh, we’re gonna go here. We’re gonna go there.” And deep down, I go, “I should network. I should get to know these people.” But what do I do? I go to my room, put on a pair of headphones, and go for a two-hour walk and just want to be left alone. I did that the first time I went down. I go down in February, I do the exact same thing. My wife is texting me, and she goes, “You go all the way to Phoenix, you spend all of this time, all of this effort, all of this money, you’re meeting all these cool people.” And I’m like, “Yeah, but by 5 o’clock, I just want to be left alone.”

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So then I go down again in May, and I’m like, I am going to network. And there’s this moment, Matthew, I don’t know if this has ever happened to you. There’s this moment where the day is done, and people are kind of pairing off. You know, some people are going to this restaurant, some people are going out for a hike, some people are doing stuff, and I haven’t made plans, and no one has invited me. And I’m just standing there waiting for everyone to leave, so that when they’re all gone, I can say, “Well, I wasn’t invited.” And I’m almost out the door, and then someone’s like, “Mark, come with us.” And I’m like, “Okay, sure.” And then they’re like, “Oh, there’s no room in the car.” And I’m like, “No, no, no problem, no problem, no problem. I don’t have to—” They’re like, “No, no, we’ll squeeze you in, but there may not be any seats at the restaurant.” I was like, “No, no, no problem,” and every step, I’m just waiting for the out. I’m waiting for the out. Anyway, I end up going, and they end up making it all work. I end up meeting great people and having great conversations. The next day, I wake up and I’m like, “I formed friendships that I would have been missing out on if I had allowed myself the excuse of not going.” And so that’s just my own personal story. That’s my own thing that I have to force myself to do, and I never really want to go out and do it, but afterward, more often than not, I’m pretty happy that I did. Is there anything else to it other than just kind of forcing yourself to do things you don’t really want to do?

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Matthew Pollard: Yeah, so I feel like you’re trying to avoid it. And I think that’s what a lot of introverts do—they avoid. It’s funny, I’m actually speaking in Nashville on Friday to a group of about 600 MSPs—people that basically, for those who don’t know, it’s the people that maintain computers in large offices that don’t have their own IT team. Those people will always go to a networking event, push themselves through it, have a whole bunch of awkward conversations, and then feel obligated to go to the drink-out and mix afterward. And then they’ll say, “Well, I did so well; I met a couple of people. Sure, there was one person who tried to sell me insurance, but outside that, I did well, right?”

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For me, that whole stress that you put yourself under was just a lack of planning. So the first thing is, I want to know what I’m going to say when I go into a networking room. Because, not sure if you’ve heard of this thing called an elevator pitch—“I do this for this group of people”—but I hate that, right? I’ve actually got a presentation called The Death of the Elevator Pitch because I hate it so much. And then I also don’t want to explain what I do by my functional skill because the first time I said what I did, and I said, “Oh, I’m a sales trainer,” people looked at me like I was one step above a scammer, so I’m never doing that again. Then the next time I introduced myself as a marketer, and they were like, “Hey, marketing! How much do you cost?” And I’m like, “I don’t want to talk about price right now.” Then I’m like, “I’ll try it one more time.” Somebody’s working with me in marketing—what am I going to do then? “Oh, I’m different. I’ve got magic ruby slippers.” All that is horrible. So I like to plan what I’m going to say. And there is actually a way to have a much more authentic conversation. We can talk about that.

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But secondly, I also like to know who I’m speaking to before I even go. Think about the average conference I go to these days—they all have apps. And by the way, this works for a meetup group as well. If you’re going to just a local event that has a Facebook page, go and reach out. You go and look at all the people that have photos that they’re tagged in on Facebook. Find them on LinkedIn—go profile shopping. It’s wonderful fun. So I don’t do anything that’s not methodical. And by the way, the first few times I did this, I created an SOP, and I gave it to my team to do now. But basically, what I do is this: I will look at the app and say, “Which people that are going to this event do I actually want to meet?” Then I will connect with them all in advance and say, “Hey, noticed that you’re going to this event. I’m going as well. Super pumped to connect with you because I’m passionate about [X].” Then I’m going to get a response with, “Oh yes, looking forward to seeing you.” And I’m like, “We should catch up for coffee while we’re there.” And I schedule all the coffees I want to have, usually during those speaking events when there are certain speakers that I’m not interested in.

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So I jam it all into that day so I don’t have to think, “Well, I better sit down through the whole event, because I promised myself that I would be available the whole day.” I will plan coffee. For me, all the networking events around the conference, I’ve got pre-planned meetings where people are planning on meeting me there. If not, there’s a whole bunch of people I connected with where my face is familiar to them. And half of them are introverted too, right? There’s actually an event that I went to recently where one of the head people at IBM spotted me in the room, came up, and started chatting with me just because I connected with him in advance. He was an introvert, and he didn’t want to talk to anyone else. So literally twice, I said to him, “I don’t want to take up all of your time,” because I know he’s one of the who’s who at the event, but he felt like everybody else was trying to sell him something. He thought he could have an authentic conversation with me because he checked out my profile beforehand, and I looked like an authentic kind of guy. He only got that because we connected in advance.

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So if you go to a networking room, and it doesn’t feel like a whole bunch of pre-planned meetings, and if you go to a conference where you don’t have pre-organized coffees... I’ve got this really amazing meeting that I’m having for dinner, so I’m not going to that event, or I’m going to sleep in. And then for a lot of them, I’ll say, “Oh, I’ve already planned all of my coffees for the trip. Why don’t we catch up a week after the trip?” Now I don’t have to feel obligated. And by the way, never feel obligated to go to the bar afterward. No strategic networking happens as much as a conversation. So if you act like you’re busy and you’ve got plans, or honestly say, “I’m an introvert, and if I don’t go and chill out for a couple of hours, no one’s going to want to talk to me tomorrow, trust me,” they’ll laugh. And half of them will say, “I’m introverted too. That’s a bloody good idea.” The other half will say, “Oh, I get it. My cousin is introverted. Why don’t we set up a call for next week?” Because if they’re not willing to catch up with you next week, why would you want to waste your energy on them today?

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Mark Drager: These are such great tips, and you’ve so perfectly captured something that I guess I learned the hard way or something along the way. But I’ve been to events where, whether it’s networking events, American Marketing Association-type events, BNI... I used to be a part of, production conferences and direct conferences for our clients, and I have found that when I go to an event where I have a reason to be there, I act very differently than when I’m just attending. And when I’m attending, you’re in the elevator, you notice the lanyards you’re wearing, and someone else is wearing, and yet I won’t really talk to them. I’ve gone to conferences where about three or four hours in, I don’t really know anyone. I don’t really feel like I have a purpose, a reason, and so I kind of duck out early.

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I’ve gone to a client event—we had a client who was having a 25th anniversary for their company, a huge outdoor bash. I think they had 400-500 people attending. And I know the business owner, so I bought him a nice bottle of scotch. I made an effort to go down there, I made an effort to see him, and I handed him the bottle. I don’t know any of the 450 people there. They all seem to know each other. I kind of stumble around, grab a drink, walk to this corner, walk to that corner. I circle for 45 minutes. It’s painful, it’s uncomfortable, I don’t know anyone, and everyone seems to know each other. So I left, and it was one of the most depressing rides home because I had so much excitement about celebrating this anniversary with one of my clients, and of course, I forgot that they were like the bride at the wedding. They’re too busy to spend time with you or hang out with you. So I’ve been to those types of events.

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But then if I feel like I have a reason to be there, if I’m volunteering, if I’m helping out, if I’m directing, if I take ownership over it, suddenly now I’m kind of like the host. And I’m in the elevator, and I see the lanyards, and I’m kind of the host. So I say, “Hey, you’re at the conference? Hey, how’s it going? I’m Mark.” For some reason, when I show up like you’re suggesting, either having pre-planned with people so I know who I’m looking out for when I’m acting as if, or if I’m volunteering or directing, or if I have a reason, quote-unquote, to be there, if I give myself a reason to be there, I suddenly show up in a totally different mindset. And it’s remarkable how different it is.

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Matthew Pollard: Yeah, I think that one of the things that’s interesting about what you just said is that we go into this mindset of, “I hope people like me when I get there,” or “I hope somebody walks up and decides that they want to put value in me.” And don’t get me wrong, I have been to events unplanned, and what I’ve found is that if you get there, if you plan five strategic walks—as I walk to the bathroom, I walk to the bar, I remember that I forgot something in the car, remember to come back, then go in, back to the bar, then go to the bathroom…

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Mark Drager: I've done all of those things, and you're like, how many times can I circle before people realize I have nothing to do and no one to talk to?

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Matthew Pollard: But the thing you need to do is you need to make eye contact, right? Like, a lot of people don't do that—they don't make eye contact, and that's the problem. So what I'll do is I'll look around, somebody will smile, and I'll walk up and just say hi, and that's it. But I hate doing that. So for me, I would prefer to go and make a whole bunch of planned meetings. So if I've connected with 15 or 20 people at a 100-person event, the chances are I'm going to see a face that I recognize, and because of that—or they’re going to recognize me, even better. And I can even say, and by the way, if you’re very introverted, I’ve seen this and it works amazingly well: “I’m so excited about going to this event. I’m an introvert, and I traditionally don’t come to events like this, but I’m so passionate about [X].” And they’ll say, “Oh, I’ll introduce you to people when you get there.” Awesome. Now, the person that I’ve connected with sees me and goes, “Oh, that’s the introverted guy. I’ll introduce him.” “Mark, how should I introduce you? Because you and I have just met.” Now I get to tell them who I am, and then they get to share.

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The thing that I find, though, is that when you talk about the pain, but not the gain being worth it, this is the issue I have. When you go networking, the goal is—not just getting prospects. I know I always say from the stage, “What do people think networking is about? Getting customers?” No, it’s about getting these other two relationships: momentum partners and champion relationships. Ivan Meisner, the founder of BNI, endorses my work. Tom Ziglar, Zig Ziglar’s son, endorses my work. That allows me to put my prices up. These are champions. These are amazing. These are your ticket out of the hamster wheel. On top of that, momentum partners—people who believe in your stuff and put you on things like podcasts or introduce you to other podcasters. These people get you out of the hamster wheel. Those are the people you want to meet in the networking room: people who run associations and groups. Those people should be your momentum partners. If you turn them into clients, it’s a wasted effort, because that gets you stuck hustling to get clients, right?

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My book, The Introvert’s Edge to Networking, literally—promise is that my goal is to get you to be a master of the networking room so you never have to go back to one. And truthfully, if you're focused on prospects, you’ll be stuck in the networking room forever. But you have to know how to articulate yourself differently. Because, firstly, why plan and prepare? If you don’t plan and prepare, you are going to end up talking to someone who’s trying to sell you insurance. Most people say BNI doesn’t work, and that’s because they don’t know how to articulate their value either. I’ve seen people get amazing referrals to really large companies through doing it, but it’s got to be because you know how to articulate your value.

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For instance, if you’re an electrician and you say you’re an electrician, they know what that is. They don’t have to ask any other questions. If you are an MSP and you say you’re an MSP, they know what that is, right? So for me—actually, you know what the best example I can give you is? I worked with a language coach out of California, and she taught kids and adults Mandarin. For the longest time, she charged $50 to $80 an hour successfully. But then all of a sudden, other people started moving into California, charging $30 to $40 an hour. Thanks to the global economy we live in, there are people charging $12 an hour on Craigslist from China. Then there’s this technology that people in Silicon Valley made: “I’ll teach you English, you teach me Mandarin, Mark. We just won’t charge anyone anything.” So now she’s competing against free.

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She came to me for sales and networking advice, and I’m like, “No, no, no, no. If you’re selling, it’s always going to be harder than it needs to be. What we want to do is avoid the battle altogether.” So I looked at the things that she did outside the scope of her functional skill, and I realized that for most people, it wasn’t a big deal, but for a couple of people—these were executives being relocated to China—she helped them with far more than just language consulting. She helped them understand the difference between e-commerce in China and the Western world. She helped them understand the difference in respect, like how to handle a business card, why it matters so much, and why they need to reduce their accent, not just learn the language. More importantly, she helped them understand the difference in rapport.

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Mark, if I’m trying to sell you something in the Western world, at the end of 45 minutes, I might say something horrible if I’m bad at sales like, “Do you want to move forward?” And you’ll say, “Yes, no, or everyone’s favorite: ‘Let me think about it.’” If I check in a week from now and you still say you want to think about it, well, we know you’re probably not getting that sale. In China, they want to see you maybe five or six times before they even discuss business. They’re probably going to want to see you drunk over karaoke once or twice. That’s just who they are. But she helped them understand this, and I said, “Wendy, you’re doing so much more for these people than just language tuition. What are you doing?” And she’s like, “Well, they’re just a few things. I’m just trying to help.” And I’m like, “You’re stuck in your functional skill.” And I’m like, “For most people who are listening to this, so are you. You’re so used to thinking about the thing you do, you forget these amazing things you do above and beyond.”

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And if you don’t know, feel free to blame me when you do this, but call your customers—your best customers—and say, “My coach told me to check in with my best customers because there must be something amazing that I’m doing to allow you to keep working with me or sing my praises.” Because I promise you, nobody says, “Oh, you’ve got to try Mark. He’s phenomenal. He does everything exactly the same as everyone else and charges basically the same price, and he knows pretty much exactly the same stuff.” No one’s going to refer someone like that. No one’s going to continue to work with you. So I promise there is something. And for Wendy, it was these three things. I’m like, “You’re stuck in your functional skill. Is it fair to assume, as a result of the assistance you’re giving these people, they’re going to be more successful in China?” “Yeah, that’s the point, right?” I said, “Great. Let’s call you the China Success Coach. Then forget about Mandarin education for a second.” We ended up creating the China Success Intensive, which was a five-week program that worked with the executive, the spouse, and any children being relocated to China.

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Now, she loved the idea of this, but she’s like, “Well, who do I sell it to?” What she’s asking is, “Who do I network with? Who do I go and market to?” Like, who do you think? Everybody goes to the easy target: the executive. She said, “Like, yeah, I was terrified moving from Australia to the United States. They speak this different language. I get it.” Not your ideal client, though. The companies would pay a lot of time. They’ve got millions of dollars riding on the executive being successful. Still not seeing it. “Well, who then?” I said, “I think it’s the immigration attorney.” Now she looks at me like I’m speaking a foreign language, and I’m like, “Think about it. These people make $5,000 to $7,000 for all the bureaucracy and paperwork that comes with a visa. They’re going to get a client. They’ve got probably rent to pay for, staff to pay for—they’d be lucky to make $3,000 off it. For $3,000 for a simple introduction that results in a sale, they love the idea. Double my income for a simple introduction? What have I got to say?”

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She said, “All you’ve got to do is say, ‘Congratulations, you’ve now got your visa. I just want to double-check you’re as ready as possible to be relocated to China.’” They’d always say, “Yep, we’ve got our visa. We’ve got a place sorted. We’re learning the language. The kids are getting pretty good at it too. I think we’re set.” And she would just have them respond with, “There’s a lot more to it than that. I think you need to speak to the China Success Coach.” She’s on the phone with the easiest sale in the world. They were terrified to go. The company was motivated to pay. She charged $30,000 for doing this five-week program, minus a $3,000 commission. She made $27,000 instead of hustling every day to charge $50 to $80 an hour. And instead of speaking to every idiot in the networking room who wants to sell them insurance, she was looking specifically for immigration attorneys. She’d go to their meetups, their groups. Think of MSPs. Think of the niche that you’re going after and call yourself something unique.

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One client calls himself the “Downtime Assassin,” another one focuses on companies that grow through acquisition, and he calls himself the “Acquisition Lifeguard.” And then when somebody asks what that is—because it doesn’t make any sense—for the first time in your life, you’re going to have permission to answer that question because they asked, rather than feeling like you’re jamming something down their throat that they didn’t ask for.

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Mark Drager: There’s so much in what you just said that I’m just going to quickly highlight for our audience. So what I hear you saying is, first of all, if you have more focus on who you’re networking with and can tailor your message a little bit more, you won’t feel like you’re just, I don’t know, some kind of improv artist on stage. If you have a really clear understanding of your key differentiators—what makes you unique and what makes you different—and that’s not people, and that’s typically not process, and that’s typically not pricing, but if you have a really clear understanding of the two or three value-adds, then that’s going to be amazing.

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And what you kind of skipped a little bit over—not skipped, I mean, it was there—but if you are introverted and if you are listening to this, you heard Matthew say, get on the phone with current clients. And you might think, “I don’t want to do that, because what if we’re not as good as I think? What if they don’t like me as much as I think? What if they have bad...what if...what if all this bad stuff happens?” But I can tell you because we do this on behalf of our clients, clients hire us to do this kind of market research for them, but I do this with my clients all the time, and I can tell you that the handful of times that I get really critical feedback, I am so grateful after the sting—after they really, like, “Ouch, that was painful,” wears off. I’m so happy that they pointed out a blind spot within our systems our processes or our organization. We can make things better. We can fix them. We can increase our value. I can build something for one client, and I can make every other experience for every other client better. So that’s great, but that actually doesn’t happen as often as you might think.

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Matthew Pollard: It rarely happens, right? Like, everyone’s so worried about that one customer that might say, “I don’t like you because of this one thing.” They’re still paying you. There’s got to be a reason for that. So fix the problem. But you’d be so shocked at how often people say, “Oh, but there’s nothing different for me,” and they believe it so emphatically that they won’t call their customers. And there is no way that is true, because they get a pitch every single day to do it cheaper, and they don’t. They ignore it. They continue to work with you. There is no way that every time they pay your bill, they don’t think about that, yet they continue to work with you.

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Mark Drager: You want to know the greatest words I've heard on these types of calls? "Mark, you know what you need to do." And if a client is willing to say that, then I am listening. Typically, they say, "You know what you need to do? You just need to do blah, blah, blah," or "You just need to do A, B, C." And I go, we had a client ask for this—like, we do quarterly reporting, we do tracking, we do all this stuff. We've been doing it for seven years for them. But in the spring, I'm on one of these calls, and they say, "You know what you just need to do? You just need a simple scorecard. Just make it easier, make it like—all the stuff that you think that I'm interested in, it's interesting, but I just need a scorecard." And I was like, "Okay, can I create one for you?" And my client was like, "Yes, you can." I said, "Can I work with you to give you exactly what you want? Will you coach me for free to make sure that I've got something amazing that I can provide every one of my other clients?"

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Matthew Pollard: Every other client.

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Mark Drager: And they said, "Yeah, that would really—like, Mark, you're—like they were, Mark, you're willing to create this custom thing just for me?" Of course, I am. Why wouldn't I work with you to help make things better for you and my business better for everyone else? But it’s uncomfortable to ask for the call, it’s uncomfortable to get on the call, and it’s uncomfortable to not take this kind of feedback critically. But introverted or extroverted, it doesn’t matter. It’s important stuff that you should be doing. I would probably argue that extroverted people might struggle with this as well because they may be willing to do the ask and do the call, but they may be uncomfortable sitting in that critical feedback as well. I mean, I don’t know if I’m generalizing too much, but in my experience, extroverted people tend to be so good at so much of the surface stuff because they’re very comfortable with the surface stuff, and maybe not quite so comfortable in the really deep conversations. And when I play to my strength, it’s when I’m not trying to be shallow with a lot of people, but going deep with a few people.

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Matthew Pollard: Yeah, I think what you’ll find—so firstly, the science supports what you just said. So statistically, introverts build deeper relationships, but they struggle with initial relationships. That’s why at a lot of big corporate keynotes, I talk about storytelling, because storytelling activates the reticular activating system of the brain. Basically, it means that our brains synchronize, and it creates artificial rapport that an introvert has been scientifically proven to put into deeper rapport, but an extrovert struggles with deep rapport. So yes, they don’t like to pick up the phone and ask a follow-up question that could actually lead to a deeper conversation. It’s not in their nature.

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And look at all these skill sets—because everyone, I just want you to know, I learned to sell because I lost my job just before Christmas. The only job that I could get was commission-only sales. I got thrown onto a road called Sydney Road in Melbourne, Australia—100 doors. So it was 93 doors before my first sale. And I got rejected, I got told to get a real job, which was always my favourite, like it was the only job I could get. And then I learned a methodical sales process, which allowed me to become the number one salesperson in the largest sales and marketing company in the southern hemisphere. And then a year later, I started my own business, and I’ve been responsible for five multi-million dollar success stories. The only thing I learned was a process—planning and preparation are everything.

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Now, what I discovered is, for those extroverts listening—like, go through this whole episode—let me tell you, most introverts when they’re selling themselves, actually behave very introverted, because how do you not take rejection personally if they’re rejecting the service that you offer? So because of that, you will avoid the conversations for the exact same reason. So what you do need to understand is you do need to make these calls. And trust me, there is something—that’s why you’re calling, and you know, there’s an exact script that I have at the bottom of Chapter Three in my book. But what it really is, you ask them, you say, firstly, "Thank you for being one of my ideal clients." And then secondly, "You know, I’m sure that there’s a reason for that. I’d just love to understand why." And I promise you they will say, "You provide great customer service," or "You’re really knowledgeable," which is useless because even the bad people who aren’t knowledgeable and provide bad service aren’t going to say that. So you need to say, "Thank you so much, Mark, for sharing that. Is there something specific about our knowledgeability you appreciate?" And that will open up a treasure trove of information.

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And let me explain why you need to know this—because when you’re at a networking event, you need to know what to say in response to—like, when I introduced myself as the Rapid Growth Guy, which is because for me, I’m a branding coach, I’m a social media strategist, I’m a sales strategist, I’m a master in neuro-linguistic programming. I’m too many things, and by the way, everyone listening, so are you too. No one cares. They don’t care how hard it was for me to learn this stuff or how long I spent learning it. But when I say I’m the Rapid Growth Guy, it’s like their brain explodes. Firstly, I should have been interested before I was interested. But then secondly, they’re trying to solve the puzzle. Like, if I said sales coach or marketing coach, they know what that is. I say I’m the Rapid Growth Guy—no idea. So what I get as a response is, “What exactly is that?” Because I just said it like they should know, like I said I was a business coach. And I then respond with, “Well, one of the things I love to see more than anything in the world is an amazing, introverted service provider with enough talent, skill, and belief in themselves to start a business of their own. But what I find more often than not is they get stuck in this endless hamster wheel, struggling to find interest in people, trying to set themselves apart, trying to make the sale, really feeling like people only care about one thing—price. Do you know anyone like that?” Of course, they do. I’ve come to a networking event that I planned, and I’ve researched everyone before I spoke to them. Of course they do, because I know it—I’ve checked them out prior.

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So when they respond in the affirmative, I then say, "I’m on a mission to help people like yourself realize you’re not a second-class citizen. Your path to success is just different. You really can have a rapid growth business doing what you love by getting better at your functional skill—you’re probably amazing at that—instead of just three things outside the scope of that that really allow you to build a business around you, your family, and your life—not the other way around." I might actually give you an example, then I might tell the story of Wendy. Now, notice I didn’t even tell you what I do. Why? Because nobody cares. They only care that I care—the story can tell you what I do. Up until that point, I want to hook them with something that’s unique, that gets them to not put me in a bucket with everybody else. That’s my competitor. I want to impose my passion and mission and care for others—not that I do this, this group of people, even if—which is a bunch of “I” statements that don’t work and make me seem self-indulgent. And then I’ll let the story convey what I do because the science says people remember 22 times more information when embedded into a story. It short-circuits the logical mind, you speak directly to the emotional mind, which is the buying center of the brain, and I develop rapport while I’m doing it. It’s so much easier.

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And here’s the thing—when you create messaging that works in face-to-face networking, where you’re like, “I could really just play a tape at this point,” that works well, then it works online. The reason why somebody has to go to more networking events and be the loudest in the room is they’re not the clearest. I’m the clearest. I don’t have to be the loudest, so I don’t go to as many networking events as most people, and I still get far better success out of the few that I go to. And truthfully, because—well, let’s face it, I don’t want to be the person taking a photo of my dog or my donut for something to say on social media. So I can’t be the loudest because I will not do it to myself. So instead, I’m the clearest. So I know my market, I know what they love, and what they don’t love because I’ve had phone calls with my clients, and I express it clearly. And I talk about my niche. I introduce myself as the Rapid Growth Guy so it doesn’t commoditize me. I talk about the three major problems that they have, and that is it.

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Think about what I’ve talked about today—all I talk about is that people need to differentiate, they need to niche down, and they need to create a sales system that works. And what I find is nobody does any of that stuff, introvert or extrovert alike. And because of that, they struggle, and they’re in this constant hamster wheel of fighting on price. I know that I don’t have to be the loudest, I can be the clearest, and people will find me from all over the world—like some people on this podcast—to come to me because my message is the clearest, not the loudest, and they don’t want to create a full-time job out of social media. They don’t want to create a full-time job out of networking. When you know your customers as well as I know mine, your customers will chase you.

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Mark Drager: I found it interesting when I was looking at your book reviews because I always look at book reviews to see, what are the five stars. What are the one stars saying? It's interesting to me that most of the complaints, the really low reviews, and there's only a handful of them, say what you're talking about is so basic. What you're talking about is sales 101. What you're talking about is just to come up with a script, memorize a script, and use the script. Like people are coming to you saying, "I want the scientific, psychological, therapy-based ways to fix what's broken with me as an introvert," and what you're basically breaking down is like, this stuff works. It's not that complicated. It can be simple. Understand what separates you, understand who you're speaking to, plan in advance for the event, show up to the event with something to say, practice it, practice it, practice it, and you will get better. You will build more confidence. You will get more comfortable. It makes sense to me. But how do you respond to this negative feedback? And why is it so clear to me? Why is it so clear to you? And yet people are looking for some kind of magic thing.

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Matthew Pollard: It's funny. I mean, my book sold nearly—well, it's over 100,000 copies now, in 15 languages, and as you said, there's a few negative reviews, right? The fact is, you are going to get, occasionally, somebody who doesn’t like you. Like, I'll give you an example. Don’t get me wrong, I speak at a lot of big corporate organizations, and I enjoy the money they pay me, and I enjoy the fact that I get to make an impact on introverted people. But my passion? Small business. If you look at my networking book and you read some of the reviews, they’re like, "I read some of the things that were practical to me in the corporate world, but it’s not as practical. It’s mostly for small business." That’s my avatar. I can’t feel bad about that. I gave a couple of little analogies to try and be helpful to somebody in a corporation, but the truth is, I care about those people. I care about my niche: introverted, service-based business owners.

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Now, what’s really interesting with the people that write that review and they say, "You know, I’ve read every sales book under the sun. I’ve been selling for years. This is really basic stuff." You’re not my avatar. My avatar is somebody who is scared of selling and thinks they can’t. I don’t care what you think. I mean, I appreciate it, but if you didn’t read the part of the book at the very beginning that says, "There is nothing you are going to find in this book that is transformational, revolutionary, that you can’t find in any other book. All I’ve done is put in a methodical process that is step by step and included lots of stories of other introverts just like you—some that are far worse off with chronic stutters—who were able to achieve success using this methodical process to help you believe in yourself," which is your biggest burden—that you don’t.

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Now, my second book on networking does have unique processes, but my sales book, I said, that’s the way it is. And so, if they read past that point or bought that book—I mean, hilariously, I say this on whole podcasts—I say, "You don’t need—my publisher hates me for saying this—but you don’t need to buy my book. If you just download the first chapter at theintrovertsedge.com, you will get the full seven steps to the sale." If you do nothing more than grab what you currently say and put it into it, you’ll realize there are some things that don’t fit—that’s because you shouldn’t be saying it to customers. Then you’ll realize there are some things out of order, which is why you end up talking about price too soon. And then you’ll realize there are some gaping holes, like asking the right questions, not just questions, and then telling the right story. And by the way, I don’t mean analogy. I don’t mean a story like you think you tell, which sounds more like a testimonial or a case study. I mean a theatrical masterpiece, like the story of how you met your wife or husband. Let’s not lie, it’s a lot better the way you tell it today than it was when you first told it, right? Everybody has got better at that story, but you tell these stories off the cuff, and you’ve told that "how you met your wife" story thousands of times, right? Once you fill in those gaps and put everything in the right order, you’ll double your sales in the next 60 days, easily.

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Here’s the thing: introverts love over-complicating things. So they read every book under the sun, and they try to piece all the different sales systems together to create the mixed martial arts version of selling that they’re going to create that’s better than everyone else’s. Are you kidding? Like, if you can’t sell, I don’t care whose process it is. I just said Zig Ziglar and Tom Ziglar are introverts. There is an introvert, right? Their books, if you like, okay, find a process that just has a book that has a step-by-step process. Just grab the chapter headings—don’t even read the book. Just put it in order and get the baseline system off. What is it Henry Ford used to say? "You can have any color car you want, as long as it’s black." Why? Because he didn’t want to worry about the bells and whistles until he got the base system. Don’t over-complicate it. Get the base system—any system, right? And then after that, worry about the bells and whistles.

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My book is for the person who wants to believe that they can sell as an introvert, and don’t want to worry about the bells and whistles. They want to get the first system off and understand the importance of continuous improvement. Then every other book is their oyster that can provide those amazing bells and whistles, and they should continue to learn. I believe that everybody should continue to improve themselves. But for that person who read the first chapter that told them they weren’t going to learn anything and then wrote a review that they didn’t learn anything, I would suggest they didn’t even learn how to read and internalize the information because I told them the book wasn’t for them.

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Mark Drager: I love it. This is why I love asking these questions because I’m like, hmm, let me just dig a little bit deeper. What a great response. Matthew, this has been an amazing conversation. I do have one final question for you, and it’s a question I love to end every conversation with. If you had one tip or one strategy that would help us grow sales right away, what would that be?

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Matthew Pollard: I would start with sales. The thing that drives me nuts is, like I just said with the China Success Coach, she could have been banging her head up against the wall every single day trying to get more people to learn language tuition. Instead, we came up with the China Success Coach. I see MSPs that go—they have all these shallow conversations because they don’t know what to say, and they don’t know how to differentiate themselves. Rapid Growth is as easy as these three steps: create a differentiated message that separates you from everybody else, niche down, and—don’t get me wrong, I know that everyone knows niches, and they all say nothing doesn’t work for them, and they’ve all got this wonderful, unique story that’s just a story you’re telling yourself, and it’s a lie, right? So go and tell it to someone else and give them this exercise. Tell them to listen to you and all of your excuses for why niching doesn’t work for you for two minutes, but just not to believe you, and then ask you specific questions. If you had to choose between this group and this group and this group, or this group and this group—I could give you a thousand examples of people that always say niching isn’t for them, and it’s really because they’re scared of saying no to a customer, or they’re scared of not getting enough business.

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So here’s what I want you to know: 99% of you get your clients from referrals or repeat business. These people don’t care if you put on your website that you’re now a dentist. They know, like, and trust you. They’re going to continue to work with you. And if they see personally—they’re not going to your website as often as you think—but if they did and they saw you were a dentist, they’d be like, "Mark, I thought you’re really involved in sales, but you say you’re a dentist now. You can still help me, right?" As long as you say yes, they’ll be fine. They’ll even probably feel special that you’re still servicing them. Niching is a new customer acquisition strategy, that is it. It’s all about getting new leads. And by the way, if you want to have a sellable business and you’re the primary salesperson in your business, if you don’t differentiate and niche down, you’re making it much harder to teach a sales process to someone else.

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And if you don’t create someone that’s not you, that’s the primary salesperson—and by the way, you should master a process. So if you’re an extrovert winging things, you should master a process yourself so that when they give you excuses that they’re lying to you. Usually what happens is an introvert gets to like, $2 million, maxing out their Rolodex. They then hire someone, and the only person that person sells to is them. They’ll talk about their amazing pipeline and how one day they’ll close a deal, but of course, they never do, and you blow $50,000 to $100,000. So my suggestion is this: differentiate, niche down, and then create a sales system that works. If you start with number three, you’ve already lost because the sales process has got to be bigger. It’s much harder to learn. It makes it harder to teach someone else. It makes scaling harder. It makes selling your business impossible. These are all vital steps, and for most people, they’re all but forgotten, right? They just don’t do them because it’s not their functional skill, it’s not what they’ve learned.

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So what I would suggest, if you want to start with those two steps again, you don’t need to hire me for this. Go to matthewpollard.com/growth, and you can download a template that’ll help you workshop how to create your version of the China Success Coach, the Rapid Growth Guy. Identify who your niche, and your willing-to-buy clients are. I think this is the national freelance conference—200 people in the room—and at the end of the session, I say, "Do me a favor. Put your hand up if you now have a message that you know will excite and inspire people and you’ve identified your niche, your willing-to-buy clients." Like 97% of the room put their hands up. Sounds amazing until I ask them the second question: "Keep your hands up if this is the most time you spent actively working on your marketing—not listening to books about it or listening to podcasts about it, but actively doing it." Like 85% of the room kept their hands up.

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So if you go to matthewpollard.com/growth and actually do it, that’s the secret sauce. You will be able to create rapid growth. Then just go to theintrovertsedge.com and download that first chapter, and then apply a sales system just by looking at what you currently already say. But if you start with sales, that won’t work as well as it should because you’re making sales far harder. And then we need, especially for most of the people listening, your brilliance and knowledge in order to continue to make sales, which, again, is harder to teach and that makes it impossible for your business to sell.

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Resources & Go Deeper

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"Networking for Introverts: How to Make Connections That Count" - Forbes

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This article provides practical tips for introverts to network effectively, leveraging their natural strengths to build meaningful professional relationships.

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"The Introvert's Edge: How the Quiet and Shy Can Outsell Anyone" - Matthew Pollard's book

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This bestselling book outlines Pollard's 7-step strategy for introverts to achieve sales success, focusing on a system-based approach rather than personality-driven tactics.

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"Finding Your Niche: A Step-by-Step Guide to Defining Your Target Market" - Entrepreneur.com

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This article provides practical steps for identifying and targeting a specific market niche, a key strategy in Pollard's rapid growth approach.

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